[GROUP BUY PROPOSAL] Multiple attacks feature

Kaemalux

Hello guys! I'n my prototype i would need the possibility to perform the same attack/ability or a chain in the same turn. I know this would request a bit of effort out of scheme from GiL, so i'm asking if anyone else is intersted. Pratically, i' think about it as an ability to choose (or performed by enemies) that make the same action repeat x number of times. Example: triple attack = attack + atack + attack in sequence, in the same turn. I don't know yet if it possible to update the framework with a feature like this, but if someone is interested we could discuss and join for a group buy. Let me know how do you think. :)

Cheers, Kaem

bkstudios

This is the trouble i been having with my game also, its realtime so combat is button mashing combos using only abilities seems to work best but the structure im looking for is

(Xbox Controller example)

square + square + triangle = ability 1 + ability 2 + ability 3///combo 1

but would change based on the sequence

square + triangle + square = ability 1, ability 4, ability 5 /////combo 2

and so on... i have yet to see if this is possible even after talking to GiL in a long thread lol

i would love to see these things as a direct feature or atleast a detailed breakdown if its already possible!

i dont think money is the factor as much as Time is for GiL....as dope as this framework is i believe he is a one man team so many of us

JellyPaladin

I'd at least want something along the lines of Bravely Default, RPG Maker, or pretty much any game with an Action Point system--stuff where you can pick multiple different abilities per turn, not just repeat the same one multiple times. =) Most people who would consider joining with us would probably want something on at least that level too.

My real ideal would be something more complex like a mix between that and bkstudios' system... but I won't go over that since we can just stick to the basics for a group buy proposal. :P At any rate, count me in!

Kaemalux

Yes JP, that is the system i was thinking about:

a box to check in ability panel, lets call it "chain ability"
the possibility to add one or more basic ability to perform, like normal attack, spell, buffs...
maybe a check if the chain is made in order, or random
the requirement to do it, like a status, an attribute value, or some other thing
number of time you or the enemy perform it in battle, or if it is available every turn
additional cost More or less those are the things i would be interested in, have you got any other suggestion? ^_^

Ps: JP i added you on twitter. :)

JellyPaladin

@Kaemalux I added you back. :D

I'd like to be able to break up which combatant classes can use how many of each ability type per turn, but I'm pretty sure I could control that with use requirements and hidden status values like TotalAbilitiesPerTurn, AttacksPerTurn, BuffsPerTurn, etc. So it might look like:

Paladin: 3 total abilities per turn: 0-3 attacks, 0-2 healing magic, 0-1 buffs
Bard: 3 total abilities: 0-3 buffs, 0-2 attacks, 0-1 healing magic
Thief: 4 total abilities: 0-4 attacks, 0-2 steals, 0-1 buffs

My only other suggestion would be a way to make the chain end as soon as an attack misses. =) That could make it more like a combo system in fighting games. I do really like your idea of putting a chain in random order or limiting it so it can't be used every turn.

Now we just need more people in here. I know I've seen at least a couple other people around who wanted multiple abilities per turn, so hopefully they'll join in!

Kaemalux

Ok, i have spoken to GiL and at a first look this seems doable. ^_^ We can start writing a list of to-do things. JellyP, from what i understand you would like to improve the system giving the possibility to the active player to choose with action to perform in a multiple attack solution. So this could be a complete list (first ones are juts re-written to make GiL easier to understand):

++ Chain ability (action with 2+ equal/different abilities performed in same turn)

a box to check in ability panel, lets call it "chain ability"
the possibility to add one or more basic ability to perform, like normal attack, spell, buffs...
maybe a check if the chain is made in order, or random
the requirement to do it, like a status, an attribute value, or some other thing
number of time you or the enemy perform it in battle, or if it is available every turn
additional cost
ending condition (like an enemy dies, the chain stops) *

++ Multiple turn choices

variable, class dependent, in how many action the combatant can perform
type of action "usuable" is defined by ability tipe (ex.like JP is saying, a warrior can perform 3 attack abilities but no buff or magic)
number / type of abilities that can performed can be reduced or raised by event / levellling / class levelling
during battle, buffs or debuffs can expand or limit the ability types and numbers (so a reduction/increase that last only in battle or by certain amount of time)
give also the possibility to npc combatant to perform multiple actions
ending condition, like *

More or less i thought about these ones, anything else? :)

JellyPaladin

You've made some nice additions and clarifications there. =) The one thing I have to add is figuring out what to do with two situations...

Situation 1: What if part of the combatant's planned attack chain can't be used?

Battle Mage (BM) is going to use magic, then a physical attack. However, before BM can attack, the enemy casts "Silence" to stop magic use. Now which of these happens:

A) BM fails to use magic, but performs the physical attack B) BM's magic fails, so the chain stops C) Since BM can't use magic, she does something else automatically (like defend or base attack), then the physical attack D) She does something else automatically, then the chain stops

C is the most similar to what happens right now in ORK if an enemy combatant can't use any of the abilities in its AI, so that might be the best option.

Situation 2: What if being able to meet Use Costs (or Use Requirements) would change during the ability chain?

Wizard has 15 MP and wants to cast Fireball (10 MP), then use a Magic Potion (restores 5 MP), then cast Fireball again. So what happens:

A) ORK calculates in advance that two Fireballs would cost 20 MP, but since Wizard only has 15, he can't pick these three actions B) ORK only looks at the cost of each individual Fireball and compares it to Wizard's current MP, and since Wizard still has 15 until after the turn begins, he can pick these three actions C) Some other solution I haven't thought of yet

The advantage of A is that a player will never accidentally string together unusable abilities, but the disadvantage is that the Fireball->Potion->Fireball plan can't be used even though it makes perfect sense in the player's head. B is the opposite... the plan that makes sense can be used, but you can also use plans that don't work (like trying three Fireballs in a row).

If I had to choose, I'd probably rather have B than A, but I could go either way.

I'm a very amateur programmer, though, so I have no idea if these are legitimate tricky situations to someone like GiL or if I'm just overthinking stuff. :P

Kaemalux

I think i got your point, so i try to explain. :) First of all, i divided two categories of feature: we must consider a chain ability, and the number of performed ability per turn. From this, we could say there are 2 requirements, considering also your examples... One is MP or whatever we call it, and it is the single requirement to perform an action (that can be a normal ability, or a chain...) and another one that we could call stamina, made by little numbers 1-2-3-4, that set the number of actions per turn.

So, let's consider your examples now: 1) We must consider when ability are cast. I don't know if this implies to rewrite the combat system (and honestly i think it would be too much work for GiL), but any action could be made in sequence or alternate, and the starter is decided with something like agility or dexterity. Pratically: if i choose magic then attack, and enemy perform silence after my magic, nothing happen (just a debuff that could prevent me casting next turn), if the enemy manage to cast silence before my spell (turn order? agility?) i simply cannot cast it. If the combat system allows me to choose before every action, i can use another ability, if every combatant must choose them before, i will simply lose an action, but i will not waste MP (different from spell "fizzle", where you lose MP also!). 2) Here i would consider stamina: i have 15 MP and i can perform 2 action, i will not be able to cast two fireballs (10 MP each), but i can cast one then drink a potion, so next turn, i will be able to cast fireball again. If you allow the player simply to choose on Mp available, the system could be overcome: fireball - mp potion - mp potion - fireball - mp potion and so one.. Yoou must give a defined number of action he can perform, without considerign the cost of single ability.

So, in the feature request, i would include both the possibility to control number of actions per turn, and the possibility to perform chains, that they are different, as every chain ability has a single cost, and is performed without interrupts (like a double attack, it is a single action, even if the action of attacking is made 2 times in a row).

I hope i could explain it. :)

JellyPaladin

I think you understood what I mean, yes. =) And that's pretty good--looking back, I could have explained my own side better! When I'm talking about multiple actions per turn, I'm picturing this:

Each character has 3 actions ("stamina") per turn ->
Player picks 3 actions (before the turn begins) and Enemy picks 3 actions ->
The turn begins (the menu to pick actions disappears, etc.) ->
The combatant who comes first in the turn order acts three times

You mentioned the possibility of alternating actions, which would be like this (I think):

Each character has 3 actions per turn ->
Player picks 1 action and enemy picks 1 action ->
The turn begins ->
Player performs action 1 (in this example, Player is faster than Enemy) ->
The menu appears again and Player picks a new action ->
Player performs action 2 ->
The menu appears again and Player picks a new action ->
Player performs action 3

Alternating actions sounds like a more interesting battle system to me. In fact, it's what I had in mind from my first post here... I didn't explain it because I'd expect this type of battle system to be too much work for GiL to create compared to picking every action before the turn begins. (But if it's not too much work, then yes, that's the system I'd love to have. :D)

I've been thinking about this all week, though, and I would be happy with either of those ways for multiple actions per turn.

Kaemalux

Sorry, but maybe i misunderstood. ^^ Using alternate battle like that, could be like simple turn orders. Maybe, for a better interaction when there are 2+ actions, if you don't want to burst them as soon as you click, you could choose them at start and then use them alternate with enemy: i have 3 stamina, i choose fireball-fireball-attack, the enemy randomly choose attack-silence-attack and he starts first, first fireball is cast, then i got silenced, and i just attack, skipping second "slot".

JellyPaladin

I do want all of the actions to start going as soon as I click, actually! :P

All I meant to say with my questions was that I don't know what should happen if some of the selected actions somehow get interrupted or can't be used. You're saying now that if one of the actions can't be used, then just skip that one and go to the next action. And... yeah, I think you're right. That's probably the most common system and anyone who's played a lot of RPGs would be expecting that, so let's go with it. =)

Is it time to move forward with the feature request? :D

Catacomber

If this would work in real time battles, count me in.

Am glad to see the group buy feature being used.