Multiple instants of the same combatant, read combatant data in runtime

emptyhanded

Hi, GiL, sorry if the list of questions is too long. I've stuck on these for a while. I am prepared to implement C# scripts for all these if none of them are build-in functions, just need a bit pointer on where to start for each of them.

Background:
I've got a game where there's a battle mode and colony mode. I've been using ork only for the battle mode, where in colony mode there's multiple colonies and each colony have its own map, buildings, list of characters (Not combatant, since I refer to a combatant as one line in Makinom Editor-Combatants-Combatants),. There's no "player controller" throughout the game since there's no in-game avatar representing the player himself.

The player can recruit multiple combatants of the same type in one colony, and different types of combatants in different colony (Warrior in a Farmland, Ranger in a Forest, etc.). For each type of combatant (say Warrior), there are multiple prefab models, portraits, random initial status (Intelligence, Strength, etc.), but share the same status development formula based on their initial status (Attack growth based on Strength, etc.). The prefab model will be a morphed version (taller/normal/shorter, so 3 types) of a pool of base models (4 different mesh models of warrior, for example), and the portrait will be from a smaller pool of portraits linked to each base model (let's say there's 5 different portraits for each warrior model). Now let's say I have 6 types of colonies.

Questions:
Q1. Do I have to create 3 x 4 x 5 x 6 = 360 different combatants in Makinom Editor? Or Is there a way to create only 6 combatants, one for each type, and somehow assign different prefab & portraits at the time of recruitment, so that these recruited combatants would stay throughout the game (global variable across scenes), and their level, exp, status, abilities, equipments, items, etc. all can be saved and loaded separately (basically treated as different characters)?

Q2. What's the best way to handle different "instants" of the same combatant? Let's say I have to create 360 combatants, even in that case I would still have multiple instants of the same combatant (1/360), each with different names, and throughout the game they will have different levels, abilities, equipments, items, etc.

Q3. Follow up on Q2, what would be the best way to assign different initial random status, initial random items, initial random equipments to these different "instants" of the same combatant at the moment of recruitment?

Q4. Each colony would maintain its own list of characters. When a colony is attacked, player can only choose from the list of characters in that colony, plus characters from one neighboring colony, to join the battle. What's the best way to achieve this?

Q5. Follow up on Q4, the combatants from the neighboring colony would only join battle after certain turns, depending on the distance between the two colonies. And these combatants will lose certain status (say, health) depending on this distance as well. What's the best way to achieve this?

Q6. In management mode, player can take items and equipments from a colony warehouse to a character, or take items and equipments from character and put back to colony warehouse. Each colony would have its own warehouse. I understand there's no "global inventory" in ork, so what's the best way to implement the UI? Do I use ork UI for the character items (inventory container) & equipments (slots), while use my own UI for the colony warehouse slots? If so, where do I start on implementing drag-drop/Ctrl+click between item slots in my UI and in ork UI?

Q7. There can be status change of a character under management mode (Lv., EXP, ability EXP, strength, current health, max health, etc.). I've read https://makinom.com/guide/documentation/scripting/scripting-overview/ and https://makinom.com/guide/documentation/features/variables/ but still confused on exactly how I can read/write data to/from an instants of a combatant. Is there an example file of how to do it somewhere?

Q8. There's an ability system in my game, where each character can potentially learn all abilites (and able to use any of the learned abilities in battle). Abilities are learned through research tree unlocks or consumable items (books) and ability EXPs can be gained both in management mode and in battle mode. Does that mean I should only create a single combatant in editor, and add all abilities to this combatant, while somehow assign prefab model, portrait, name, etc. during gameplay? Or, what would be the best way to achieve it?

GeneralK

@emptyhanded most of this can be handled with built in functionality in Ork. I would recommend going through the full 3D RPG Playground tutorial to learn as much as you can about the framework (it is the long tutorial).

I'm sure GiL will give you some better answers but I wanted to help too :)

1) Yes you only need to make 6 combatants, one for each type. The way combatants work is exactly what you're describing, they are treated as their own character. When you spawn/join group for a combatant it creates a unique instance of the combatant that has it's own set of stats, exp, level, abilities, equipment.

Portraits and Prefabs are both supported. Depending how many portraits you want, you can just check the box for use Random Portrait set straight in the combatant's settings. If you have a lot more where it doesn't make sense to add them all to a combatant in the settings, then you can use a Portrait Prefab and change it's sprite based on a variable using a script.

Combatant prefabs are also in the combatant settings. You can use an Object Variable (saved on the combatant rather than trying to track a global list or something) and randomly assign a prefab based on that variable. See this tutorial: https://orkframework.com/guide/tutorials/2d-grid-battle-rpg/03-randomizing-combatants/

Being saved and loaded is mostly handled by Ork unless there is something custom that Ork doesn't automatically save but Combatants that are in player groups will be saved when the game is saved automatically (If those things are checked in UI -> Save Game Settings)

2) You don't have to handle the instances yourself, Ork handles it. When you one way or another Join Group with a Combatant, and do stuff with it, rename it and spend some Status Value points and equip a weapon on it, and kill something and gain experience, Ork will save all of that for that combatant instance. If you mean UI wise how to manage them, that really depends how you want it to function and look, I'll touch on that more in other questions I think.

3) Lots of ways to do this depending on your mechanics but it's basically built in. Combatants -> General settings has Random Status Bonus for all combatants. An individual combatant settings has an override for it. Classes have it too. Then you could also do it in schematics.

For items it's the same thing basically, and is built in. You can list loot in Starting Inventory and there is a Random check box, or you can use Loot tables in Combatants -> Loot and have the starting inventory come from those, or use schematics (Init schematic / Spawn schematic depending).

Abilities is a bit trickier because the combatant would share the same abilities between instances if set in the Combatant settings and there isn't a random check box for it so you'd probably use a schematic to randomly Learn an ability or Complete a Research Item that grants the ability instead if you wanted it to tie in seamlessly to your research tree system you mention (so it will just show that one already researched, makes sense to me).

4 & 5) This gets a bit tricky. A lot of this can depend how you envision the colony scene to work, how it should all look and play. Maybe use an Object Variable on the combatants named Colony that has a string with the colony name, then you could grab only combatants that belong to that colony to do different things. Or Player Groups are indexed, you could have each colony uses a specific player group index for combatants but that might be messy.

Are the colonies supposed to be placed by the player or are you placing them randomly, or static maps? Is the colony view more of just a UI with buttons/HUDs that are the colony icons or a scene where combatants are moving around?

If it's a scene then are player characters being controlled on the colony map or are they more like RTS mode moving around on their own? Are enemies moving around? Need more info how you want it to all work but you could have colony prefabs with Interaction Machines on them, MoveAI controlling combatants, use actual World Unit Range checks for the reinforcements thing or have some sort of variable check on neighbors.

6) I would just make the Colony itself another combatant with it's own inventory. I do this with Stash / Banks and drag between player character inventory to stash inventory. Equipment is per combatant. Inventory can be set as per combatant as well, or as Group inventory. You could have a Menu that opens the Colony inventory + a User change part that lists the combatants of that colony and switches between their individual inventories.

7) Lots of ways to go about it but you can display Status Values in Menus with HUDs. You can access all sorts of information via text codes like < value > without spaces, look in the help above the Description boxes on stuff. You can also access Status Values and Variables in schematics and display variables in Menus and HUDs. There are many ways to read and display the data so it really depends on what it is and what you're doing with it. You can use a Combatant Menu Part in a menu with a HUD to show Status Values, Attack mods etc.
It all fits together though so sort of need to understand it as a whole rather than just telling you that.

https://orkframework.com/guide/documentation/ui-system/huds-status-values/
https://orkframework.com/guide/tutorials/3d-rpg-playground/menu-02-template-huds/

Need to know more about how you want to change those things, like are there points to spend that were earned from combat? There are Status Development that will automatically gain Status Values when the combatant levels up. There are Menu Parts Status Value Distribution and Upgrade and Research Tree that you can use depending on the set up. You can also change status values in schematics with Change Status nodes.

If you want to do it through script then you can access combatants status values directly as well. https://orkframework.com/guide/documentation/scripting/combatant-scripting/

8) For research trees you can Learn a tree through a schematic, or have it set in the Combatant settings or in a Class. So if you just assign all of the ability trees in Combatants -> General Settings -> Research Trees then all combatants in game can use those trees through a Research Tree menu(s) and learn the abilities. When you complete a research item or learn an ability it is automatically for that specific combatant instance.

Items (consumable) can run a schematic on Use that has a Learn Ability node.

Exp gained for abilities and combatants are instance specific as well so when the Battle Group earns 10 experience and WarriorJoe needs only 2xp but RangerFrank needs 20xp to level, Joe will level up and have 8xp left and Frank will be 10xp short still of leveling.

emptyhanded

GeneralK Thank you for your detailed reply!

i’m not with my desktop now so can’t record a new video just now, but I would like to share this video recorded a few days ago so the background is clearer.

the first two seconds are in colony mode, and yes it’s like RTS where each characters move by themselves. the colony mode are already done and does not involve Ork for most of the part, the only thing shared between colony mode and battle mode (ork) is the status of each instance of combatant, including exp, strength, equipment, items, as well as when to join battle “. So essentially I am looking for a way to do data exchange between these two systems, while under colony mode. i can open ork menu (not battle menu, the normal exploration mode menu) under colony mode already, so yeah i can display all stats and items of a combatant instance, what i dont know how to do is how to interact between UI of the two different system, and how to make a colony character do something and sync the result to its corresponding ork combatant instance.
For example Q7 is about when i have a character gaining exp for an ability in colony mode, how can i make the corresponding ork character(one instance of a combatant) also gain same amount of exp for this ability? i don’t need ork ability for the colony mode, but a colony character can “practice” this ability under colony mode to gain ability exp, and also can gain ability exp by using it in battle (ork).

since i limit the item slots on each combatant (8, as can be seen in the ui from 3s to 15s), i can not use one combatant instance to represent the colony itself, since colony would have larger number of storage slots, depending on number of warehouses built. (unless of course i use a lot combatant instances for each warehouse, or if there is a way to allow different item slots number to different combatants)

colonies are predetermined, spread out on a map like cities, switching colonies most likely switches scene (have not decided on this one). colonies themselves can be battle fields (3s-5s) but most battle fields are dedicated(6-15s).

i will try your advices out and update in more detail once i have access to myself desktop.
Thank you again, @GeneralK !

GeneralK

@emptyhanded cool, that makes sense.

Each specific "do something and sync" is going to be different though so you'll have to research the syntax of each thing.

StatusValue.AddValue is probably what you want
https://orkframework.com/api/class_gaming_is_love_1_1_o_r_k_framework_1_1_status_value.html

Combatant handler I think you'll need too
https://orkframework.com/api/class_gaming_is_love_1_1_o_r_k_framework_1_1_combatant_handler.html

If you use Ork menus to do it then you won't have to script all of it. Eg; you said you can call Ork menus in your colony view already so if the Equipment button I see in the video just calls the Ork Equipment menu. You could call a Status Value Upgrade menu, etc

Combatants can have more than 1 inventory container so you could have a container specifically for warehouse (on the character combatants not colony), and have it only accessible through the menu in the colony, so then you simply do not include that container on any other menus. However then you have overflow from regular inventory if full, in to warehouse, and it would carry the inventory over to another colony if the character changes colony. You can limit the slots of the container to 8.

(That's the reason I made my stash/banks another combatant in a different player group because of the overflow thing, before I just had them as another container only accessible through an interaction machine on the stash box)

gamingislove

1) No, you'll just need a combatant for the base types (e.g. warrior, ranger) if they have different setup (e.g. other equipment).
Combatants can be randomized - e.g. check out this part of the 2D grid battles tutorial that gives different prefab and portrait (and random name generation) to combatants.
For different stats you can e.g. use random status bonuses in the combatant's setup - or do other things via the init schematic of the combatant to randomize further things.

Generally, if you do random things that are not part of a regular combatant save data (e.g. like stats), it's best to use object variables (e.g. as the linked example) and base the random things on them (e.g. via machines/schematics on the prefabs).

2) Each combatant you use in the game is it's own instance, e.g. if you spawn 2 combatants, that are 2 separate instances with their own data. The settings you set up in the editor are just that, settings, which are used by all instances of the same combatant. Beside the settings there's nothing linking them. You can also have the same kind of combatant in the same group as often as you want.

3) Random status bonuses for all stat-related things.
The start inventory can e.g. use loot tables, or you can do things via chance settings (on the individual items added to the start inventory) or in the init schematic of the combatant.
Equipment would have to use the init schematic to randomize it - there's no chance or random setup available for the start equipment currently.

4) Separate player groups, one for each colony.
E.g. when you check out the Join Group node, the first setting is the Group Origin - this defaults to the Active Player Group, i.e. the player group that is currently set as the game's player group.
If you use Player Group ID, you can join combatants to other player groups via a Group ID (the default/initial player group is ID 0).

So, you can create as many player groups as you want, change which one is active (Change Active Group node) and even switch combatants between them (using group nodes in schematics or even via the Group menu part in menu screens). All groups are saved with save games.

5) Schematics :)
There are nodes to have combatants join a running battle - how to use the schematic depends on the used battle system, e.g. turn based battles have a the Battle Turn Start/End Schematics, that are used whenever a battle turn (independent of the individual turns of the combatants) starts or ends. There, you could check the current turn and have the other player group/cololy join the fight.

6) Item boxes - they can also use Inventory Exchange menu screen parts to have the combatant and box inventory side by side to move things between them. That menu part can also directly access an item box (via Box ID), so you can access them without interacting with a physical item box (Item Collector), or you can also open this via schematic.

7) Status changes can be done via schematics (e.g. Change Status Value node).
You don't need to use scripting for this - but you can, though I'd need more info on what you want to do to help here :)

8) Combatants can learn all abilities independent of their ability development setup - e.g. via research trees (as you want), by using items or also via schematics (e.g. learning the ability they where attacked with or a random ability from an enemy).
No need to set up only a single combatant where you cram all abilities into the settings :)

emptyhanded

Thank you @gamingislove for the detailed answer, and thank you @GeneralK again! These are exactly the type of guidance I need. I think I got a clear idea on question 1-6 and 8.
I'll explain the context of Q7 in more detail and list the help I need at the bottom:

Context

Q7 touches the core of my game implementation: the colony mode is a real-time system separate from ork, which I'm using turn-based phase battle only. Player can not directly control the movement & actions of any character but only affect how each character in colony mode moves and works by adjusting their "schedule", a bit like RimWorld.

I've recorded a longer video to show the colony mode (0~19s). 20~21s is a world map full of colonies (or empty locations) that allow switch between colonies, and more importantly start a battle that connecting colony mode to ork phase battle. 22~27s shows an ork phase battle took place at a colony, and 28~45s are just normal ork phase battle.

When I started the project I assume ork does not handle resource gathering, building, schedule of each character, etc. so I was using two systems in parallel, one for real-time management (colony) and one for turn-based grid battle(ork). I was thinking using the colony system as base to keep all data, and "Sync" the data to ork whenever a battle happens.

In the video, all characters in 0~19s are colony characters, and all in 22~45s are ork characters. They are different prefabs that have no connection at all, except use the same model (mesh, bones, materials). The colony character will get tired and hungry over time, gain experience while gathering resources/forging weapons/build architectures/practice abilities over time, sleep over time to recover energy, and real-time move speed plays a key role in efficiency of some jobs, say resource gathering. When a character perform certain job for long enough time, for example mining, his strength increases.

I essentially created an "instance dungeon" for each battle, and I was planning to copy all data/stats from my "colony character" that's relevant to battle to the corresponding "ork character" (HP, max HP, strength, learned ability, experience of each ability, equipment, items), have them being updated during the ork phase battle, and copy the result ( character experience gained, HP lost, items consumed, loot gain, ability experience gained, new ability learned by reading book, whether a character is permanently dead ) back to the colony mode.

After reading your answers to my other questions I think it might even be possible to use ork and the base system and keep track of all data of each character, and have the colony system update the corresponding stats whenever a battle or save happens.

However even in this case I would still need a way to read data from ork, copy to colony mode, wait for the change over time, and update the data back to ork. Specifically:

HP: it will reduce when a character move on the map from one colony to another. When battle happen at the destination colony, the starting HP in Ork Phase Battle will be a lot lower than starting HP when the character leaves home colony.
Max HP, Strength, Level: during battle a character might level up (not even by end of battle, but during battle), which changes these stats, and these change needs to be reflected in real-time colony mode: for example strength affects the productivity of mining, level affect enemy level in events, low HP at higher Max HP takes longer time of rest to recover, etc.
Ability Experience: ability experience can be gained in colony mode by spending time on "practicing" (spending time in a practice room) and in ork battle by using the ability in the battlefield. Ability experience dominates damage and accuracy in battle mode, as well as practicing efficiency in colony mode (slower to increase experience by practicing when the experience is already 900 than when it is 100), so need to keep both systems in sync when entering and leaving the battle mode.
Ability Learned: character learns an ability when his experience of this ability reach 300, reading a book grants 80 ability experience. So if a character get a book through loot or steal during battle, and he already at 250 experience of that ability, if he use that book in battle, he will gain a new ability with 330 experience that can be used right away in battle. He might use it multiple times to bring the experience to 400. This ability with 400 experience will need to be reflected after battle end, and when he start spending time "practicing" this ability in colony mode, he starts from 400 experience. Same deal goes the other way round, if this character gain more than 300 experience of an ability through practicing or reading book during colony mode, he will learn a new ability that can be used in battle mode.
And of course if a character permanently died in battle mode (ork) he's not gonna come back to life in colony mode. If a character is too low in loyalty and choose to leave player faction, or defected and joined a rival faction during colony mode, then he will not show up in the battle mode fighting for player faction.

Same thing happens with equipment, items, all other stats. The core problem essentially comes from the fact that there are a bunch of activities happening outside of ork, but will have impact in ork (phase battle); and anything happen in ork (during phase battle) will also directly impact the activities outside of ork.

This is phase battle in ork (turn counter at bottom right), all UI shown are either Ork HUD or UI Box. Bottom left is UI Box listing abilities, and three HUD templates to the right showing equipment, items (limit to 8 slots) and stats.

This is under colony mode (real-time, there's speed control buttons at bottom right), all these are my own UI, no ork HUD script or anything (in current implementation). However everything in red is relavent to ork (phase battle) and needs to be in sync with ork.

Essentially the button "Martial Lore" in colony mode should display similar information as ability menu but in different layout (it's the tech tree for abilities), "Equipment" button in colony mode should display both the colony item box and the equipment slot and item slot. Items and weapons can be produced during colony mode and somehow added to item box (ork) as well. The "Stats" part in my colony mode UI should display the exact same information as the HUD template, same goes with portrait, name, nickname (not shown here), job title, level, exp, etc. Currently these data are kept outside of ork, and displayed in my colony mode UI without using the HUD template already available in Ork UI system.

Questions

Q7.1 how can I reuse the HUD template (so getting relevant information from ork) while display them on the same UI that shows other non-ork aspects of the corresponding character? (same character from player perspective, but is its own 3D model prefab, own animation controller, and a separate set of data that's not relevant to ork. For example the schedule system where each little golden man icon represents an hour)

Q7.2 @gamingislove mentioned I could use schematics (Change Statues Value) but my question is exactly how I can get this schematic node to read data (for example current HP) from data under my colony mode (let's say an integer in an instance of my colony character)? And the reverse direction, how to write the remaining HP into this integer in my colony mode when battle ends? I guess I would still need to play with setValue() or addValue() in this API when characters join battle (write the current colony data into ork), and getValue() when the battle is over (write the current ork data into colony)?
I've already had a button in my colony UI that add items to ork so I know script would work (snippet below). I just haven't find a code snippet on reading/writing values shows me an example.

        public void OnClickPotion()
        {
            Debug.Log($"Within Colony Sim add Item ID: 3, Quantity: 1");
            GamingIsLove.ORKFramework.Item item = ORK.Items.Get(3);
            ORK.Game.ActiveGroup.Leader.Inventory.Add(new ItemShortcut(item, 1), true, true, true);
        }

Anyhow I will try out ideas following answers I got so far and come back with a better question if I'm still stuck. Thank you both again!

gamingislove

You can definitely use ORK to keep track of your data. In colony mode, all you'd need to do is assign the game object of the colonist as the game object of the corresponding combatant and you'll be able to simply change stats and other things on the combatant via the game object. Or even have them be ORK combatants from the start and spawn them via ORK - they can still handle their routines you've scripted even if they're ORK combatants.

You can assign a combatant's game object like this:

combatant.GameObject = gameObject;

combatant is the instance of the Combatant class for the combatant.
For more details on scripting with combatants, you can check out this documentation.

Alternatively, you'll need a way to link a game object instance to a combatant instance and write a few custom scripts to access them (e.g. for HUDs a content provider). Just setting the combatant's game object is the easiest way, though.

7.1) As said, by connecting that game object to the combatant, e.g. by setting it as the combatant's game object :)
That way you can also view the combatant's information in your HUD, since you have access to it.

7.2) Same as #7.1 - if the game object is a combatant, all of that will work automatically when used via schematics.
Naturally, you can also do custom scripting to change stats (Status property of the combatant gives access to status values, status effects and levels) or learn abilities (Abilities property of the combatant).

So, in short, you'll need to find a way to link the game object to the combatant it represents - best option via setting it as the combatant's game object. How you actually know which combatant to use for which game object is probably a question you can answer yourself, since you've built that colony and battle mode separation :)

emptyhanded

gamingislove Or even have them be ORK combatants from the start and spawn them via ORK - they can still handle their routines you've scripted even if they're ORK combatants.

So it took me quite a while but I finally got it working like this, try to rely on ork as much as possible. I attached a whole lot of non-ork scripts to the prefab used as an ork combatant in Makinom editor, and spawn it in the colony (non-ork, non-battle) scene using "Combatant Spawner" gameObject. The spawned combatant can now move according to my script, and I can see all the status value of this combatant in the unity inspector. Thank you for pointing this out! Didn't really think of this at all. I have a whole lot of other logic that I need to migrate to using ORK combatant but at least this is a good start.

The question now is how can I display the status of this spawned combatant on my own UI.
https://forum.orkframework.com/d/8147-setting-ui-combatant-through-code is asking the exact same question (display combatant info on existing non-ork UI), so I'll follow up the question there.

Thank you both for the detailed answer again!

gamingislove

There are 2 ways to handle this, both naturally require you to get the combatant from the game object and pass it on:

1) Easy way: Use ORK's HUD components for that. You just need a HUD Content Provider component for those components to use - and you can simply set the user of the content provider to the combatant and everything will work just fine.

2) Write your own custom UI components to access and display the combatant information you want :)

Also, if you have some custom data in your components that you want to save, you can implement custom component save data. That'll have the data be part of the combatant's save data.