Not sure if ORK is right for me

aileigh37

So I want to make a 2D style of game, but I'm not sure if ORK is the right choice for me. I know some programming, but the problem I run into is management of all the scripts and lack of some knowledge in how to pull-off exactly what I want. Especially with the combat system in my games. I'm hoping that ORK can help. I already have plygame and I found that the tutorials on it are so outdated that I can't even use it to do simple things. Anyway, to get to my point, I want to do a 2D action RPG a little bit like the game Salt and Sanctuary. I have the tools for some very high end 2D art, but the other artist doesn't like 3D modeling and it's too time consuming - not to mention less abstract. Thus we are going for the 2D style, with a combat system that is like a flat Dark Souls. I want to have one AI companion at a time, kind of like a pet, and that can switched out from a central town hub. The game is linear, so I do not have to account for overwhelming amounts of occurrences. I want to include a strong narrative system that unfolds through dialog, not unlike a bioware game. How well does ORK handle something like branching dialogs, +/- a variable for player choices in dialog... something easy to manage. This is very important, as much as the combat. Think of it almost as a dating sim. A flat, Dark Souls style game that is linear and includes a dating sim. I may want to do sprite swaps too, btw, of the playerCharacter. Not sure if that too is possible. Please let me know if you need more details to answer my question.

PS. I read in the Asset Store comment section that this tool was like RPG Maker on steroids. Well, I would like exactly that. I really know how to use the unity editor and I can program somewhat in C#. I would never use RPG maker because of it's lack of control. If this system is like RPG Maker, and it doesn't take insane amounts of coding to make it work in that same vein, I am all for it. Anyone tell me if you think that's a true statement regarding similarities.

Thanks.

Dre788

You actually don't have to wonder about anything with ork as there is a trail version you can download and try every feature for yourself.

http://orkframework.com/download/

And yes, rpg maker on steroids is a good description for ork. Everything you mention is possible between ork and unity.

aileigh37

Oh, wow. This is very helpful. Thank you.

UPDATE: I see that there is a tutorial on the site that spans about 50 articles and dates back from 2013. Is this considered the way to learn ORK's system? I was wondering about directly learning the 2D method and asking if there are any video tutorials anyone knows about floating around the community. I thought there would be as I've seen this compared to RPGMaker enough times.

The interface of the system is way more than I thought it would be, but at the same time, I can tell there is a lot I can do once I learn how to use the system. Would you say the learning curve is steep, or do you think it's moderate? I just can't tell what to expect at first glance.

Keldryn

Yes, absolutely work through the entire 50-part tutorial series.

Without changing anything. Even the stuff that you don't care about for your own game. You never know when a later tutorial will assume that you've completed a step that you decided to skip.

There is definitely a learning curve. It's no so much that is is overly complex, it's that ORK is extremely comprehensive and there is a lot of material to familiarize yourself with.

aileigh37

Ohh, that's some helpful and specific advice that I'll be following. Then, I take it that the curve is moderate, but time-consuming. Versus just straight-up hard.

I downloaded the resource package but it weirdly saved as a .tar. I had to rename it to .unitypackage. It threw me for a loop for a minute.

FancyFerretStudios

I've been using ORK a couple of months now with increasingly frequent usage as of late. Each time I figure out something new. Now that's partly because I didn't go through every step of the tutorials and partly because ORK is truly comprehensive as stated above.

I think the "RPG Maker on steroids" is putting it lightly. In fact, I think its capabilities are quite beyond a degree of simple explanation. Different users will discover those capabilities in different ways as they approach their games in their own manner.

The thing with RPG Maker and other genre-specific engines is your game will most likely exist within the confines of that application exclusively. While Yanfly has written an ungodly amount of scripts that took RPG Maker far beyond what its creators imagined, everything is still within the confines of RPG Maker if you get what I'm saying.

I think a good analogy is that RPG Maker would be like a customized car. You can change the color, interior, add some custom parts, etc. but you have the original engine, frame, etc. always. ORK is a (hot rod) engine, transmission, axle, brakes, electronics, etc. You add the rest to build whatever vehicle you want. Yes, that will take some welding and time but you'll have a pretty sweet ride in the end.

Because it's a framework, ORK works with pretty much everything else in Unity. I don't think I've run across anything it conflicts with. You can basically make a scene with two cubes, add ORK and you have a RPG as simple or complex as you want that's based on two cubes. Got a sprawling 3D environment of a city? Add ORK and you've got an entire city now you can turn into an RPG as you populate it.

It has a visual node-based system for complex or simple events and dialogue that covers pretty much everything but I see that you want a very story-driven game. I'm using Dialogue System and Love/Hate assets from Pixel Crushers. They offer very extensive NPC relationships based on emotions, interactions, gossip, deeds, etc. Both can combine with ORK through provided bridges to provide super rich story and interaction options.

I can't say I have 2D experience yet with it but for everything in my experience so far, ORK is superb. I'd have to say it's the most powerful comprehensive asset I've come across yet.

aileigh37

So far I am on tutorial 5. My initial impression was that you have to pay really close attention to the tutorials if you want to try and understand what's going and why you're doing it. I'm having some early difficulties understanding the logic behind why I do some of what I'm do - like why put the idle animation on a layer of -1? Or what is the best way to organize my project as I work? And why can't I rotate green pants the NPC? I think I just want to know everything at once, lol. I'm pretty excited though, because I am not getting errors or bugs with this system. The biggest concern I had that prompted me to ask my original question was that yes, I could technically make a game with ORK, but I didn't want it to be glitchy or subpar, with a generic battle system and a database that flips out on itself. I like the analogy that RPGMaker is like a car with the frame you can customize, but this is like all the custom parts, the engine ect..., and you have to build the car yourself. It is like a GI joe, where you can change the helmet and weapon versus a pile of Lego blocks, where you can build anything at all. The challenge is how good you are coming up with design...

kwiknip

<blockquote>aileigh37 said: I'm having some early difficulties understanding the logic behind why I do some of what I'm do</blockquote>

Hi I'm going through the tutorials also and came across the same analogy (Makinom & ORK in my case). I was noticing systems in schematic & events I could have easily selected there to perform some of the same actions but the tutorial would have me attach a component instead which was confusing because the WHY wasn't being theoretically explained in-between each step. Then the answer to the WHY occurred to me.
IMO it's showing how data and task can be passed around outside of Makinom/ORK in various different ways while showing exactly how to connect/update/get/set, etc. data and variables back and forth within the Unity scene if that makes sense.
So now as I'm following the tutorials I'm feeling less and less intimidated by each method or action to perform because I realize that's just its way of teaching us the ins-outs of how each machine/schematic/variable or event can communicate between each other and is not indicative of how I personally would need to use them when setting up my own environment. Its basically showing us multiple ways to skin the same fish.

aileigh37

Thanks for the responses. @kwiknip yes, your explanation makes sense, though for me, I remember better when I understand what I'm doing in the moment. For some reason, after doing the tutorials, what I just learned is not sticking in my brain. I keep having to use the instructions every time I go to set something up. I think a big part of it is remembering where to find something in the interface. Does anyone know if I can adjust the categories' side tab boxes so they're always collapsed?

Anyway, I cannot fathom how I could ever do work in 2D. I left off on tutorial 9 and understand everything so far - in 3D- ... but I've covered setting up a character pretty thorough and not sure how to se it up with a 2D setting. I tried searching the forums but I think I am doing something wrong there too, because I keep getting the same hits for every topic. Anyway, once I do set it up the character, what do I use as an interaction box? And is real time combat (2D) going to be possible without using intense event scripting? I know I haven't done the AI tutorials yet but I don't think it's going to be that easy to just whip up a custom AI.

dlevel

After 2 years of using ORK on/off I can say that you can use it for any type of game, either 2D or 3D, doesn't even matter what genre the game is, I'm sure you can make a race rpg game for example.

Just finish the tutorials and after some more learning curve you will understand the use of it and why 2D doesn't really make much of a change for the use of ORK.

kwiknip

<blockquote>aileigh37 said: what I just learned is not sticking in my brain.</blockquote>

Me too, so I discovered this tool called: Spotlight Inspector, by Takion Studios in the Unity Asset Store, that I'm sure will help with my memory because it has a History feature that will show previous steps during the workflow. I actually face palmed when I saw this feature in action in their video, plus the other features will be outstanding when used with ORK/Makinom to manage the laundry list of machine components and variables attached to game objects in the Inspector.

aileigh37

@kwiknip interesting tool. I usually don't pay attention to interface extensions in the asset store, so needless to say I never noticed that. Yesterday I did so many ORK tutorials that I think I just was not retaining information and ended up getting tired, because today I started again and felt really comfortable with the system.

Still not registering with 2D yet but I am going to work on a mini project in 3D instead of rushing into 2D, and play around with the event editor. After today, as @dlevel said above, to keep using ORK, and it will come to me.

Dre788

<blockquote>Still not registering with 2D yet but I am going to work on a mini project in 3D instead of rushing into 2D, and play around with the event editor. After today, as @dlevel said above, to keep using ORK, and it will come to me. </blockquote> To shed some light on this. Ork doesn't care if your game objects are 3d or 2d. All that's needed is a way for Ork to interact with the objects. (interactive events, battle object, etc.) If you want to use 2d game objects rather than 3d then you should look into some Unity tutorials on working with it's 2d api.

Here is a screen shot of a pet project of mines using all 2d and place holder art. It's a basic jrpg battle system.

https://ibb.co/epEm5Q

aileigh37

@Dre788 Thank you for taking the time to upload that screenshot. When you say ORK doesn't care, you mean that I can use things like the Interactor Controller on a sprite object? With your mecanim controller, did you just do an animator controller according the ORK mecanim controller tutorial and use each sprite anim like Walk, Attack, ect.. from your spritesheet? I learned a lot more about ORK today, still going thru tutorials, so I am getting a clearer picture by the hour. I am doing a 3D project right now, for practice, similar to the tutorial, but using my own naming conventions, trying to implement cutscenes and most of all, some more in-depth dialog --- just to retain my knowledge thus far.

gamingislove

Some general information when going for 2D instead of 3D can be found in this how-to.

Regardless of what type of game you make, or if you're using ORK or not - you'll have know how to work with Unity and why things are done how they are. E.g. the Idle animation is placed on layer -1 simply to have it always running in the background, i.e. if higher layer animations are stopped, it'll always return to the idle animation.