MrQuaid

Hi, I'm apart of several different visual scripting forums and I've always wondered if anyone from these groups works together. I'm not asking to group up but from what I've seen it's rare and I think that it's a missed opportunity. I work solo myself and I have 2 games on steam but I have to say it's hard alone, no matter the size of your project. With the amount of talent I would think working together could benefit a lot, and it's easier when people use the same tool (Ork, etc).

Anyways, just general chat, but does anyone here collaborate? If so how's it going? If not, then why?

<<If interested in Particiaptating in group project, go here
http://forum.orkframework.com/discussion/3977/ork-community-collaboration-project
>>

dlevel

Good question, I also work alone with outsourcing stuff i can't do (3D, Music etc.). The only reason I don't collaborate with someone is that I haven't found anyone from my friends etc. that I can work with, and as far as to start creating a game with someone over internet that you never met before and don't know him, I feel kinda unconfortable and I can't totaly trust him that he will commit as much as I will.

MrQuaid

I found that issue to, working with either someone who isn't passionate as I am about my project, or the whole trusting someone you don't know.

Keldryn

I agree with your sentiments, @MrQuaid. A greater degree of collaboration would be very beneficial not only in the ORK community, but within the wider community of Unity developers in general.

I suspect that the primary reason for this lack of collaboration is that everybody has his or her own idea for a game and really wants to work on that. There is also the matter of forming business partnerships and how to split profits if working on a commercial project -- and I can see that being a huge stumbling block if the individuals don't know each other in real life and live in different countries.

To a lesser degree, it probably also has something to do with novice developers dramatically underestimating how much work game development actually is.

And as @dlevel said, there is the issue of being uncertain as to the level of commitment on the part of people you don't really know. I can understand this as I've seen both sides, having been left hanging by people who just disappear but also having been the guy who flaked out when overwhelmed with real life happenings.

But such is the nature of projects when everyone is either volunteering or working for a share in any future profits. And people you know in real life can flake out under the same circumstances.

I am totally open to collaboration, and I reached out to one member of this forum when I saw him posting on an RPG forum elsewhere, as we seemed to have a lot of the same goals. My initial pitch was to share technologies even if weren't working on a game together. It's been a pretty good relationship and he's got me thinking about RPG design in ways that I hadn't before. We're potentially collaborating on an idea that has for a variety of reasons been stalled in the concept/pre-production stage for a while.

The primary hurdle I've run into with collaborating is that I can't work with an inexperienced project leader. ;-) It seems that everybody needs to learn for themselves what is realistically achievable and what isn't. My free time is too precious to spend it watching others learn the lessons that I did many years ago. Also, when others approach me, they inevitably see me primarily as a programmer; my interest and aptitude (as well as my brief AAA industry experience) is on the design side.

Raiulyn

While is is beneficial, the problem here is forming a group. Causes that ends dev groups are: inexperienced, commitment issues, leadership are the main issues I come across.

I'm open to the idea of collaboration. But I need some convincing that we can finish the project. I don't really care how long as long as it's achievable.

If you're gonna work with someone at the other side of the world, it becomes harder like time difference and all.

My advice is when you're forming a group, set up clear goals and check with each other often. When one member falls, the whole group falls along.

MrQuaid

Great points, I've only been on the side where others leave, mostly do to their lack of understanding how much goes into a project, even a small one. Money is always a concern, more so for me it was the wait for a pay out as most of my earlier projects had 0 budgets.

Personally what I would like to see or be apart of is a collaboration style group that work on tech demo like projects. Projects that use a theme, and is only for the experience of working together. No goal of selling, but a goal of completion. The project it self would be great for people to share best practices, get vital team exp, and possibly create real business partners.

An example of what I envision something like this working would span a few stages, similar to real game development.

1- establish the group
2- debate and vote on theme
3- discuss skill levels, passions
4- establish start/ending for game
5- discuss roles/time
6- then set dead lines
7- rinse and repeat for other projects

Mock project would be something like, the group is established, a group of 5 people. A week or so is given to present and debate theme ideas. Then personal skill level and system passions are discussed(people would need to be open minded and for a project like this, say i want to do stats and some one else does, ether rotational or split), need a solid start and finish, the middle can be levels we each make, etc, but need start and ending, roles and time are a must to see what each can do. Deadlines, def, its good to practice things like that.

Anyways just something that I always thought was interestings. I'm not quite ready to work in a group again for a marketable project, but something for fun and experience and to make new friends would be great.

Keldryn

@MrQuaid - I'm totally up for that sort of thing.

This would also be a great opportunity to eventually build up a library of project starter templates and integration packages for ORK. I'm thinking more in terms of refactoring and extracting useful bits out after completion, rather than setting out to build such a package. I've learned when trying to build integrations for ORK and various character controllers that a lot of the work is ultimately very game specific. You need to build this stuff in the context of a specific sort of gameplay.

I would *really* benefit from actually completing a game for a change. ;-)

HarryOminous

i've only ever worked on a single collaborative game project, and i'd never do it again

it was supposed to be a new user mod for Postal2, but i'm ashamed to say i baled out on it after a few months (although, to be fair, they'd got quite a few levels out of me by then)

these projects are only ever as good as their weakest link, and in this case the weakest link was the guy who was supposed to be leading the project and writing the overarching game scenario. unfortunately he only had the flimsiest acquaintanceship with the english language, and his "ideas" basically boiled down to "some zombies did it". tired, even back then

so, yeah, it all sounds like a good idea. and i can imagine that if you've got a group of friends who are all into the same kind of stuff, and who share the same kind of goals (perhaps something like james rolfe and the crew at cinemassacre), then it might work. otherwise, like most marriages, it's probably all just going to end in tears and recriminations

MrQuaid

@Keldryn - I like the idea of given back to the community, if anything having working examples would benefit. Completing a game is very fulfilling even if its just for fun. You will learn things that help in the next game.

@HarryOminous - You make great points, I've been there to, it's why I won't work on a marketable project with others unless I have funds to pay people for special things I can't do. I think it boils down to people's thought process. In so many cases you have a group of people with there own ideas, that want to work as a team but as the project goes on they see it moving in a path they would not chose and that's frustrating.

I think I will start a small little project, a generic RPG and open it up to people who want to participate. I've completed many projects myself so i have a feel for what it takes to take a project from start to finish. To @HarryOminous 's point people may come and go, contribute more or less but I will oversee the project as a whole to keep it alive for people. It's not going to be a marketable, and will have a looser time frame. I will create a working game doc outlining a flow. I want to keep it organized, so at first most things will be paper and pen.

@Keldryn I think you might be interested, if so we can chat more about it.

@HarryOminous prob not your cup of tea, however any tips or advice would be great, I think once I get things in order i can create a topic just for this project and add in tips and such.

Should be fun.

HarryOminous

yeah, like you say probably not my kinda thing, but i wish you well with the enterprise anyway. ork's probably one of the best Unity apps in terms of tutorials and documentation, but it certainly would be no bad thing if some further working examples came out of your project. as very much an ork noob i find that kinda stuff tremendously useful

MrQuaid

I will create the new discussion now, but I want to continue this one for general feelings and thoughts about team projects. Once done I'll add the link here at the top.